Mojo is mad at the president for lying us into an unnecessary and un-winnable war. Bush can’t stop lying. Bush invoked Vietnam as a way to justify what went on there.
Vietnam is the reason we should get out of Iraq.
Sometimes the gods just hand you a gift. Not only did Rove quit. What was about to happen that made him quit? Now Bush tries to use Vietnam in a positive light to justify us staying in Iraq.
Is Iraq Vietnam all over again?
In Kansas City, MO Bush thinks there is a legitimate debate about the virtues of Vietnam. We can’t leave Iraq because too many civilians are getting killed. But what about the ones already killed?
Bush wants us to think that we could have won in Vietnam. All we needed was a little more time, money and troops.
Mojo quotes some comments on Bush’s speech.
Had Bush gone to Vietnam rather than Alabama, he may have a different take on the whole thing.
Last night Mojo watched Deer Hunter on TV. The real lesson of Vietnam, lie your way into a war and you’ll lose your support. Kill American soldiers for no reason and the people at home won’t support you.
War is a last resort. Even after 9/11 Mojo wanted to kick some butt, but was Iraq the best we had? That was our best response?
There is no glory in an unjust war. We should have learned from Vietnam that it is their country and theirs to sort out. Same with Iraq. We can’t tell who the enemy really is. Sticking around isn’t winning. We could stick around forever and win but it isn’t really victory.
The domino theory is BS. Another thing we learned in Vietnam. Did all the other countries fall after we left Vietnam? The Communist government collapsed on itself or mutated into a more friendly form like in China now. The Vietnamese were fighting each other since the end of WWII. Iraq is FUBAR. Our soldiers have died for no reason in an un-winnable war.
No more Americans need to die in Iraq for no reason.
Patrick in LA
Patrick – what type of military history class did Bush take at Yale?
Mojo – Bush even quoted bin Laden in his speech. Doesn’t catch him. Why don’t we shut Osama up? Hussein hadn’t done anything. In a perfect world we would have gotten rid of him. But we aren’t in a perfect world. Most people in Iraq have nothing to do with jihads. We’re creating more problems by acting like a stupid imperial power.
Evan in OH
Evan – Thinks are soldiers are there for a reason. Its what the commander in chief decides.
Mojo – his problem is with Bush, not the soldiers. If we didn’t invade Iraq, would Hussein have attacked us?
Evan – there were weapons there
Mojo – there weren’t. There was nothing to see and that’s why the inspectors couldn’t find anything. He gassed the Kurds years before and hadn’t done anything in a long while.
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Jack in NJ
Jack – it is an American way to spread democracy. We’re there for that and to procure future resources.
Mojo – if that was true gas wouldn’t be $3/gallon going towards $4. Gas should be 75-cents a gallon. You don’t spread democracy through guns.
Jack – it isn’t our place to do it, but to show them how it is done. If we establish the seed, it will take root.
Mojo – How long do you need to stay? 20 years?
Jack – based on what, you have no idea how long we’ll have to stay [Jack’s argument then takes a poor turn for Jack’s case]
Jack – we invaded Germany and still have troops there today. Look at Japan, same thing. They had dictators…
Mojo – Dictators who attacked us.
Jack – we all know Bush lied
Mojo – we’re in the wrong place. We aren’t spreading democracy.
Jack – whenever confronted by bullies, what do you do?
Mojo – hit him in the nuts
Jack – you go after the biggest bully
Mojo – Saddam wasn’t the biggest bully, Osama was the biggest bully. Don’t confuse your bullies.
Real lessons of Vietnam
- You can’t defeat an indigenous population who won’t give up. If the locals feels you’re an illegitimate occupier they will sacrifice every man, woman and child to fight you. This was a lesson in Vietnam, Nigeria and Afghanistan for the Russians.
- Don’t get involved in a land war in Asia
- Only fight a battle you can win
- Don’t get involved in local politics
Iraq and their neighbors need to figure out how to solve their problems. The average Muslim wants the same things people in the west does. The average Muslim doesn’t want to participate in some crazy jihad. It should be simple to isolate them.
Dave in AZ
Mojo – Bush doesn’t want to spend the money on the troops, not if they get sick
Dave – Maybe Vietnam should have gone on a little longer, just long enough for Bush and Cheney’s names to show up on a black rock in Washington.
Mojo – The only republican who fought was McCain.
Dave – And we’re starting to wonder about him too.
Mojo – being a POW is bound to make you a little screwy
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Tony in OK
Tony – What would happen if we pull out
Mojo – it can’t be any worse. The Al Qaeda will be quickly killed by the militias. They’re all foreigners. Ultimately it is the Iraqi’s responsibility to deal with their own country.
Tony – Half our explosives are coming from Iran.
Mojo – We need Iran, Syria, Jordan and others to take over. A stable Iraq makes life for all of them better.
Tony – I’ve been there and would go back in a heartbeat.
Mojo – you don’t think we’re meddling
Tony – we’re stabilizing the region and making things more equal. Over there kids get stoned for talking to the wrong person.
Mojo – that happened here 50 years ago
Tony – but this is happening now. We need to stabilize them to the point where they can make a choice. We’re always going to be known as evil western occupiers there.
Mojo – we made a mistake and are in an unnecessary war
Mojo hates the president and how he’s lied to us so much and now is using Vietnam to justify the war in Iraq.
TJ in TX
TJ – Agrees with Mojo 100%. Had we put this focus on Afghanistan at the beginning we’d be done. Also have you noticed Russia’s military has gotten huge? Their economy has done real well.
Mojo – hasn’t noticed that. People said that after 9/11 that America was at its knees. I’ve always said America isn’t at its knees until Russians are at the Mississippi and we have 2 nukes left. We need to watch the Russians. They’re a real threat.
Fred in NJ
Fred – You decide what you’re going to do and you get out. We used to see 1 guy killed then 2. Now we hear of too many killed each day. The other day there were 12 in a chopper killed. And they were going to help others. We didn’t learn enough in Vietnam.
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Invading the wrong country sends the wrong message to terrorists.
Luke in OH in Cleveland
Luke – You’re wrong on Iraq. A huge base there is great for against Iran and China as well as India and Pakistan.
Mojo – how is Iran a threat to us
Luke – it is long term
Mojo – if we have a permanent base in Iraq it is sticking it to them. We need to get the moderate Iraqis to want the same things we do.
Luke – isolationism is the answer
Mojo – I’m not saying that. We’re all the ones with the nukes. If we want to send a message, drop a nuke on Mecca.
Luke – we’ve created chaos next door to Iran.
Mojo – that is still a problem. Iraq is younger than Paul Neumann.
Luke – We won’t be able to control the infighting between the tribes. China is going to become a problem.
Mojo – we’re concerned about the mid-east countries because of oil. What if we stop buying oil from them. We ought to be able to figure out a way to cut oil imports in half in 10 years. We also need to get the Israelis to make peace with their neighbors. The mid-east isn’t a concern if we don’t need their oil
Scott in St Louis
Scott- I agree, we need to stop importing oil, not that I called about that. Bush need to go back and listen to some history tapes. They’re saying the same things now that the politicians did then. Scott has a history degree and isn’t a conspiracy theorist, but how does a jet take out so many layers of the pentagon. A plane is built like a formula-1 car. It shouldn’t go that far. Something must have blown up in the building.
Mojo – I’ll agree with you that we should have invaded Saudi Arabia. That’s where Osama is from
Scott – The world answers to Saudi Arabia. Bush Sr was appointed to more political offices than anyone since Nixon. We develop new sources of energy and everyone will be kissing our asses. If Brazil can get off the oil grid, why can’t we.
Mojo – we can use the oil in North America. We just need to be more efficient.
We’ve gone over time, and Mojo can’t remember that this isn’t the NASCAR show again. See you next week.