11/1 Lyin Cocksuckers show Torture, pro or con
Does torture work and is it effective in getting information out. Is it a smart tool. Is it ever justified. Are there perfect circumstances for it.

Right off the bat, let me tell you. Sometimes you may have to torture a motherfucker. I wouldn’t say I would torture anyone at anytime. But water-boarding is torture.  It comes from the Spanish Inquisition. This all got started with Alberto Gonzalez.

When Bush said shit, Gonzalez said how much senor.

We have a new Attorney General from NY now. Mukasey. When he came up before the senate they asked if we should torture, he said no, we shouldn’t and it is illegal. Then they asked about water-boarding. He hemmed and hawed and did a dance around the issue and said he’d get back to them. The letter he sent back was that he can’t comment on it because it is secret. However, if it is torture, it is against the Constitution.

There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that water-boarding is torture. The lyin’ cocksuckers say it isn’t torture. They say that if we’re doing it, it isn’t torture. They’ve redefined the definition of torture. It is now enhanced interrogation. This is 1984 to be damned.  The changed the name of torture and changed the meaning. Water-boarding is simulated drowning. What is the difference between that and drowning? Nothing to the person its being done to.

The President was saying we can’t call it torture because then a lot of our people may get arrested. So Bush is just torturing the language to get around a law that they don’t like.

Our official policy should be that we don’t torture, but we all think deep down inside in some secret place that we’d be for a little torture if we thought it did any good. I’m not naieve. Our official policy should be that we don’t torture. That should be our policy because we don’t want our guys tortured. We aren’t going to win hearts and minds by pulling their fingernails out. Don’t get me wrong. At some point, under the right circumstances we might do it.

My problem with torture is that a lot of people think it makes us look tough. The problem is that it makes us look stupid because it doesn’t work. Most don’t know the information that we want, and those that do, the suicide bombers, they ain’t gonna talk.

With torture you get false information. How do you know they know the answer to the question that you’re asking. You could torture for years and they may never know the answer.

Torture isn’t a smart tool. You get a ton of blowback. When our troops get captured, they’re going to torture them.  Someone’s going to give a scenario where you have a guy who knows where a suitcase bomb is and he knows the codes to disarm it. The clock is ticking…do you torture someone then. Yes, you might. Here’s the problem, he could still lie to you and he may not talk. He may let you kill him.  The problem with torture is that if you go too far, you kill them and they won’t tell you shit.

True believers won’t tell you. They’re willing to die for the cause. John McCain will tell you this. When they hiked him up, did he tell them the truth, no he made stuff up so they’d stop.

Randy in NC
R – you’re right, it makes no sense. But if it is a suicide bomber and he wants to die, I’d rather he die at the hands of a torturer that by a bomb strapped to his chest that’s going to take out hundreds of people around him. And in the process hopefully we’ll get some information out of him.
M – that’s the thing, the problem with torture is that there is such low yield compared to the blowback.  What happens to the American soldiers.
R – But they know that when they’re going over there. They know there’s a strong possibility of it happening.
M – and how are we going to take the moral high ground if we go around torturing people.
R – I’ll give you that, but they need to quit lying. I don’t care how you color it, it is torture.
M – I think the American population would be happier if we just said that our official policy is that we don’t torture. But in certain circumstances we reserve the right to, but in 99.999% of the cases we aren’t and you can go look in the prison right now
R – you can’t do that, because in the last 10-15 eyars the American people have become such pussies that they don’t want to hear that. They want Uncle Sam and Bush to pamper them and make them think we’re the perfect society and we don’t do anything wrong. There are no heroes in this country. They died with John Wayne

John in Detroit
J – I don’t think torture is the right way to go, but we seem to be the only people in any of the wars we fight that follows the Geneva Conventions. If no one else is going to follow it, get the information by any means possible. Torture they’re going to lie to you.
M – Lets say you had a big ring leader that you tortured and they told you nothing. You could line his family  up and shoot them one by one and maybe get them to talk, you could pull the legs off his dog, you could put his momma’s head in a vice and maybe someone would talk, but some people just ain’t gonna talk.
J – that’s right. How did we win WWII? We bombed the shit out them until they said “we quit”. So I say we start yanking troops back and just bomb them until they give in.
M – if we were going to invade a country after 9/11 the country should have been Saudi Arabia. If we wanted to threaten someone, we should have threatened Osama with a nuke over Mecca. And told him if he was going to do one more thing, we were gonna drop the motherfucker. Mecca will be no more. Where Mohammed started his religion, there’ll be a piece of glass in the desert.
J – Remember Kaddafi? I’d have to have heard that conversation. “ He Moamar, see that mountain behind you, oh now it is gone? The one in front, oh that’s gone too? Moamar? You still there?”

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Some of you think I’ve been ranting the whole time the commercial’s been playing. I HAVE!

The President’s press secretary will say that the AG is part of his anti-terrorism team and that it is imperative to get him confirmed. And, if the terrorists attack us, it will be our fault.

They’re playing a little Catch-22 with us. Mukasey won’t answer questions and he hasn’t been given the classified information. And here’s the Catch-22. Once they give him the classified information he won’t be able to comment on it. He hasn’t been briefed on the secrets and once he’s been briefed, he can’t answer.  We’re screwed if we do or don’t. I’m beginning to think these politicians in DC are Lyin’ Cocksuckers!!!!

Michael in TX
Mi – Depends on the type of torture. Most people thinking of torture think of pulling the guy’s fingernails out with pliers. Shoving a needle under the toenails.
Mo – don’t most people think electrodes on the doo-dads.
Mi – The thing is you also have mental torture against them. You have to use their beliefs against them. For instance you have a guy who is the mastermind. Pigs are some pretty nasty animals and they’ll eat just about anything, especially some lying cocksucker terrorist. So you show him the pigs and give him one of his followers as an example and tell him if you don’t tell us where it is, you’re following him. And according to their religion, assuming he is some religions jihadist using religion to further his shit, I’m thinking he’s going to spill something of the beans of wherever the hell the thing is.
Mo – I’m sure there are people smarter than me or you who thought about wiping their ass with the Koran and getting them fired up that way. Or like you said, or I said earlier, to you line up his children in front of them and feed them to the pigs? Or sick a bear on them or some damn thing. The thing with torture is that even in a perfect scenario you only have a 10% success rate.
Mi –Well you have no percent chance of it working if you don’t.

Mo – No, no, the problem is all those other nine people we torture that didn’t give us any information, they’ll come back to haunt us.
Mi – It’s like we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. If you do nothing, then you’re going to have all these assholes coming back with 20/20 hindsight saying you should have done this and should have done that. Shit’s going to fly either way.
Mo – We’re going to have to get one of those machines that lets you go back in time. We go back in time to see where he hid the bomb and go and get it out
Mi – The problem is that whoever is in charge at the time, no matter what they do, they’ll get fried either way.
Mo – the thing is we have only been attacked twice in the last 15 years on our soil. It isn’t like England in the 70’s when Ireland was bombing them 2-3 times a month. We’ve been attacked twice. Both at the Trade Center. We’re talking a lot of hypotheticals. And the president says we stopped a lot of people who were planning to attack us. But what we’ve stopped is just home grown lunatics.
Mi – Timothy Koresh is a homegrown lunatic too.
Mo – he was, but he wasn’t part of Islamo-fascism was he?
Mi – he was still a terrorist though
Mo – I know,
Mi – terrorists aren’t just exclusively Muslim things. He was a terrorist too and we have ones here at home we have to worry about too.
Mo – here’s the thing. Under some circumstances I can understand why we need to torture, but it can’t be our official policy.
Mi – You can’t use your most severe punishment every time when you punish your kids. If he’s writing with a crayon on the walls, you have to go up, you can’t just pull out your belt off and whip his ass the first time he’s done it.
Mo – you’re not supposed to do that? You aren’t supposed to whip their ass with a belt when they write on the wall with a crayon?
Mi – Not the first offense. You start low and then go up. You only use it when it is to the greatest advantage.

Bill in WI
B – Against torture. I think we can do it chemically a lot better than the other ways
M – I did write that down in my notes. Let’s give them LSD or psychedelic mushrooms or something and get them off their game.
B – Some good peyote buds will loosen them up.
M – You say we give them peyote and when they’re tripping they may spill the beans.
B – Put some tarantulas in there or something.
M – Bill you’re evil. Put tarantulas on a man who’s high on drugs.
B – The guy running for AG. If he doesn’t understand water boarding, well he should have it done to him and then give his opinion.
M – I watched a tape on the internet. A guy who’d been a Ranger and he learned how to do it. And he had some other guys do it to him. You’re lying down with your head lower than your chest and they put a rag or something in your mouth or over your face and keep pouring water over their head. You’re getting the sensation that every time you’re breathing in you’re having water poured over you and makes it seem like drowning. It’s no different than grabbing the guy and holding his head under water for 30 seconds.
B – these attorney generals, you don’t have to show them classified information. Just do it to him and let him give his opinion then.
M – The Bush administration says they aren’t breaking any laws so they go ahead and change the rules. They aren’t breaking the law, they’re breaking the old law. They have an executive opinion that says they aren’t breaking the law. Anyone who is against them, they want to lock them up forever
B – Same thing Hitler did.

Comedy break with George Carlin on the death penalty.

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Torture is being stupid. It is like invading Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11.

I want to win and defeat the Islamic terrorists, but not through torture. It doesn’t work. The few times it works isn’t worth the trouble for the times it doesn’t work. I wish we would act like the smartest country.

Frank in OK
F – When it comes down to it, I’m all for anything we can gain. Torture, chemical. Anything you can use to protect us or the troops then you ought to go through with it. We may have only been attacked twice, but we’re the world’s protector and our troops are all over the world. It doesn’t have to be on American soil, if you can protect our troops I’m for it. If you say we have to follow some rules, that’s when we’re losing.
M – the problem is the president and supporters have produced no real evidence that torture has worked. They say it is classified. We can’t tell if they are lying or not. I understand what you’re saying, but show me the success. Show me where torture has worked.
F – I’m not arguing with you there.
M – I’m for winning too, and in war you should use every means possible to win. I understand that completely. But torture isn’t going to win. What will win is McDonalds, Playboy, Porno, Jack Daniels, and DVD’s
F – and Sirius Radio
M – That’s right. Most people want what we want. A stable job and a place to raise their family and watch the game. Now they may be watching soccer matches over there and they might want a little drugs and pussy. It’s the same thing we want.

Matt in Indy
Ma – I’m for torture all the way.
Mo – Do you think we get any good information out of torturer.
Ma – I’ll tell you what. When they caned that guy in Singapore, they taught him a lesson
Mo – that’s corporal punishment, not torture. Some people say you shouldn’t hit or beat your kids. But Damon Wayans said, “You shouldn’t whip ALL your kids, some kids need an ass whipping.”
Ma – That towel head SOB over there should have his ass whipped. We need to beat the shit out of him. Maybe do 2/10ths of what they did to us.
Mo – Do you think bin Laden has Sirius Satellite Radio.
Ma – he probably does and he’s probably listening to me talking on the phone right now. And I’ll tell you straight up, if he’s listening, he’s a cocksucker and he’s a chicken shit.

Milo in Indy
Mi – against torture. During the 80’s and 90’s I served as a military intelligence officer and I only know of one instance where physical torture got the right information. Most of the time it gets lies or negative information that sends you off on the wrong lead
Mo – a wild goose chase.
Mi – yea, which consumes so much of your intelligence time and man power that it isn’t even worth it. Most of the time your intelligence is prepared before you pick up the individual through electronic communication or assets on the ground. And that information is so much better than anything you’ll get from torture.
Mo – that’s what I said. During the perfect scenario. If it only has a small rate of success, it isn’t worth doing
Mi – no, not with physical torture. There are other things you can do, like using psychology. It is the only key that you have when you apprehend someone with information that you want. You have to outsmart them. Play mental mind-chess. And you have to be one step ahead of them and a player. Most of the professionals in that branch know what they’re doing, but I have a feeling that there has been a degradation of our services because so many people have left. Any time a government tells you that they are taking the gloves off, you have to be concerned.

Quick break
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Badger on line 1
B – They only thing we’re creating by torturing people is more enemies in the future.
M – that’s what I was talking about the blowback of torture, we’re behaving like our enemies say we are.
B – How can we track down an 8 year-old who started a fire back to the matchstick but not find these people. We can find the non-terrorists.
M – the problem with Gitmo is that they are in no-mans-land. They don’t have lawyers. We just know they are down there and that we’re supposed to be afraid of them.
B – I’ve seen this thing on jail where they give this guy the “loaf” and these are these hardened criminals and it has all the nutrition that the body needs but it tastes awful and within 2 weeks they are screaming.
M – I left a loaf in the commode the other night. It was so big, it had little turds orbiting around it. In fact that turd had been up in me so long it had a Beatle haircut.
B - if we were feeding them Mojo Nixon turds, I guarantee they’d turn over in an instant.
M – These people are such religious fundamentalists that maybe some of my songs. If we were to play “Tie My Pecker to My Leg” over and over in Farsi or Arabic, they would probably give in real soon.

Butch in KS

B – I am pro torture. I have a daughter who’s been there and a son who is there. They both carried a knife that I’d embossed with pig guts. I think every one of these cocksuckers should be castrated or circumcised.
M – what happens if your son or daughter gets captured. What happens to them.
B – Did you think that wasn’t a possibility. They’re prepared for suicide. Do you know what happens to American soldiers when they’re caught. They’re de-headed. Who wants to be tortured with a butter knife when you can shoot yourself in the head.
M – kill or be killed.

Brian in St Louis
B – I’m against torture. George Washington gave out the order in the day not to torture the British. And we’ve taken the moral high ground ever since. When you aren’t taking the high ground you’re no better than a third world banana republic country.
M – I also have to think that a lot of whom we torture don’t know anything. How do you know they have an answer to the question you think they do. Many people who were tortured, they’ll tell you anything  and like Milo said earlier that sends you on a wild goose chase. What’s the chance you’ll have the one guy who really knows something.  And then on some people torture doesn’t work on.
B – worked great at the Salem Witch Trials
M – used to be if they sunk it meant they were a witch and if they swam it meant they were a witch. A Catch-22.
B –I’d say they were screwed either way.
M – you’re right. We don’t have a moral high ground to stand on if we torture people. Water boarding and dunking a person is the same thing.

Thanks to Sean the Jersey bigfoot for producing the show.